Legislature(2005 - 2006)CAPITOL 106
02/03/2005 08:00 AM House STATE AFFAIRS
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB97 | |
| HB79 | |
| HB94 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | HB 79 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HB 97 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HB 94 | TELECONFERENCED | |
HB 97-OATHS; NOTARIES PUBLIC; STATE SEAL VICE CHAIR GATTO announced that the first order of business was HOUSE BILL NO. 97, "An Act relating to the authority to take oaths, affirmations, and acknowledgments in the state, to notarizations, to verifications, to acknowledgments, to fees for issuing certificates with the seal of the state affixed, and to notaries public; and providing for an effective date." 8:07:59 AM ANNETTE KREITZER, Chief of Staff, Office of the Lieutenant Governor, said attempts have been made through legislation to make changes to the notary statutes, which have not been changed since 1961. She noted that [House Bill 439] was one such bill last year, but ended up dying on the House floor. The proposed legislation - HB 97 - would allow the notary administrator to move to a more web-based system for education and would bring the notary statutes up to current practice. In response to a question from Vice Chair Gatto, she confirmed that HB 97 would streamline government. 8:11:09 AM MS. KREITZER directed attention to a notary statute comparison [included in the committee packet], which outlines the general concepts of the bill. 8:11:48 AM REPRESENTATIVE LYNN moved to adopt the committee substitute (CS) for HB 97, Version 24-GH1008\G, Bannister, 1/28/05, as a work draft. There being no objection, Version G was before the committee. 8:12:20 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG referred to language that had been in a bill the previous year, which read as follows: Sec 44.50.071. Handbook. The lieutenant governor may produce a handbook for commissioned notaries public on the Internet and shall, upon request, distribute the handbook to each person who is commissioned a notary public under this chapter. The handbook must contain a summary of the provisions of this chapter and the regulations adopted under this chapter. 8:13:53 AM MS. KREITZER confirmed that the language that dealt with handbooks in House Bill 439 was left out. She noted that Representative Gruenberg felt strongly about including language in the bill that mandates that the administration provide handbooks. She explained, "We are moving to a web-based system; we don't wish to be constricted in how we present handbooks to notaries." She said there are 12,000 notaries in the state, and she thinks publishing 12,000 handbooks is a waste of money. She stated that she would rather see the administration provide printed materials to commissioned notaries public upon request. 8:15:32 AM MS. KREITZER said the word "shall" is problematic. She said the committee could decide to add the language back, but the administration would oppose it. 8:16:41 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG reread the language. He said he understands Ms. Kreitzer's concern. He suggested having the language state that if a handbook is printed, then it would be distributed. He added, "The main thing is to do it on the Internet." 8:17:54 AM SCOTT CLARK, Notary Commission Administrator, Office of the Lieutenant Governor, suggested changing the language to say, "publish information on the Internet" and specify to provide that information, rather than using the word "handbook". 8:18:16 AM VICE CHAIR GATTO asked if it would be better to use the term "electronic media" or something that is not limiting, rather than using the word "Internet". 8:18:36 AM MS. KREITZER said the bill drafters would take care of that. She directed attention to a handout [included in the committee packet] showing notary statute comparisons between current law and proposed legislation. She noted that the age an applicant must be would be changed from 19 to 18, which would be consistent with the residency requirement in AS 01.10.055. The applicant must also legally reside in the U.S. All applicants may not be convicted/incarcerated felons or have been so within 10 years. Ms. Kreitzer noted that concerns were raised last year on this issue. 8:21:19 AM VICE CHAIR GATTO surmised that there are various levels of felonies and some would "disenfranchise a person." 8:21:36 AM REPRESENTATIVE LYNN stated that he agrees with the requirement that an applicant must legally reside in the U.S. He said he worked on a bill last year regarding this issue, and he said there was much discussion then about how to determine if a person is indeed a legal alien. 8:22:32 AM MR. CLARK said there will be an application to determine that. In response to a follow-up question from Representative Lynn, he said the applicant will be taken at his/her word when he/she claims to be a legal resident. 8:23:28 AM MS. KREITZER, in response to a question from Vice Chair Gatto, clarified that the 10-year period for convicted felons was a result of past discussion with the former House State Affairs Standing Committee. She listed the classes of felonies. 8:24:22 AM MR. CLARK explained, "If we ... set this idea to the time that they're convicted, there's a possibility that they could qualify while they're still in prison. So, that's why it's tied to post-incarceration." 8:24:51 AM MS. KREITZER returned to the review of the handout. She noted that the current term for notaries public will continue to be four years. The proposed legislation would create a limited governmental notary public commission, which would be for state, federal, and municipal employees. She said state employee notaries will continue until they leave their state employment. Ms. Kreitzer said the $40 application fee for non-state employee notaries would continue; however, the fee for certificates would be increased from $2 to $5 each. 8:26:08 AM MR. CLARK passed around examples of the certificates. He said they are currently used for two purposes: verifying facts about boards and commission members so that the state can sell bonds, and verifying that documents passing between countries are official. 8:26:59 AM MS. KREITZER, regarding notary bonds, said the amount of the bond would not change, but limited government notaries would be excluded from the bond requirement. The bill would also require that the lieutenant governor keep the bonds for two years. 8:27:31 AM MS. KREITZER directed attention to the second page of the notary statute comparison handout. She said the new commission type being created to deal with limited governmental notaries and those commissions is currently available for municipal and federal employees, in addition to state employees. She stated, "If you're a notary public and you serve the public, then you can bill for your services. If you are a governmental notary, you are not to bill for your services." MS. KREITZER highlighted commission revocation. She noted that, currently, it happens by the Administrative Procedure Act, which is a cumbersome procedure for the public. The proposed legislation would allow the lieutenant governor to forward a complaint to the administrative hearing office if he/she believes the complaint is sufficient. MR. CLARK, in response to a question from Vice Chair Gatto regarding frivolous complaints, said most of the complaints received are against notaries and approximately 75 percent of them turn out to be misunderstandings about notarization rules. 8:30:09 AM MS. KREITZER said [HB 97] would help the administration by providing a clear procedure for how to deal with those complaints when they occur. Regarding notary data, she said the bill proposes collecting additional information from the applicants, which would remain confidential. The information that is currently being collected would stay public: the notary public's name, mailing address, surety information, and commission date. There would be no changes in status for noncommissioned notary publics under the proposed legislation. 8:31:33 AM REPRESENTATIVE LYNN recalled that when he was on active duty in the military, he frequently acted as a notary public of the commissioned officers. He said he is now in retired reserve, and he asked if he could still [perform notary duties]. 8:32:07 AM MR. CLARK responded that one of the problems with the whole concept of a noncommissioned notary public is that "we have no involvement in either post masters, or the court, or commissioned military officers"; therefore, he said he could not answer Representative Lynn's question. He added, "Nor can we authenticate the notarizations that are performed by those notaries." He offered an example. 8:33:26 AM MR. CLARK, in response to a remark by Representative Elkins regarding electronic notarization, stated, "That whole concept is going to happen, but I don't think that any state is very advanced right now in making that happen." He noted that the pilot programs for electronic notarization, in those states that have them, have failed. 8:34:44 AM VICE CHAIR GATTO complimented the state on its technological advances. 8:35:11 AM MR. CLARK said the most important result of the bill would be its move toward web-based processes. 8:37:23 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG directed attention to Amendment 1, labeled [24-GH1008\G.1, Chenoweth, 2/3/05], which read as follows: Page 4, line 13, following "(or County of __________________": Insert "or Municipality of ___________________) " Page 4, line 25, following "(or County of __________________": Insert "or Municipality of ___________________) " Page 5, line 8, following "(or County of __________________": Insert "or Municipality of ___________________) " Page 5, line 23, following "(or County of __________________": Insert "or Municipality of ___________________) " Page 6, line 6, following "(or County of __________________": Insert "or Municipality of ___________________) " Page 6, line 19, following "(or County of __________________": Insert "or Municipality of ___________________) " The committee took a brief at-ease. REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG explained that the term "judicial district" has been used for a long time, and he said he would like to add "municipality". 8:39:31 AM MS. KREITZER, after clarification from Representative Gruenberg, said the administration would have no problem with that. 8:39:39 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG moved Amendment 1. There being no objections, Amendment 1 was adopted. 8:39:53 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG introduced [Conceptual] Amendment 2, [labeled 24-GH1008\G.2, Chenoweth, 2/3/05], which read as follows: Page 17, following line 11: Insert: "Sec. 44.50.073. Handbook. The lieutenant governor may produce a handbook for commissioned notaries public on the Internet and shall, upon request, distribute the handbook to each person who is commissioned a notary public under this chapter. The handbook must contain a summary of the provisions of this chapter and the regulations adopted under this chapter." REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG asked Mr. Clark and Ms. Kreitzer for suggestions on how to improve Amendment 2. After incorporating some changes recommended by Mr. Clark, Ms. Kreitzer, and committee members, Conceptual Amendment 2 [treated as amended] read as follows: Page 17, following line 11: Insert: "Sec. 44.50.073. Published summary. The lieutenant governor may publish information for commissioned notaries public by electronic means and shall, upon request, distribute to each person who is commissioned a notary public under this chapter information containing a summary of the provisions of this chapter and the regulations adopted under this chapter." 8:44:16 AM MS. KREITZER said that's acceptable as a conceptual amendment. She said she thinks one purpose of not using the term "handbook" is because it puts the administration in a box regarding how the information is delivered. Ms. Kreitzer expressed willingness to work with the committee further on this bill. 8:46:50 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG stated his understanding that the legislature passed legislation for electronic transactions in AS 09.80.010. He said he wondered if the Office of the Notary Public could take a look at that. 8:47:36 AM MS. KREITZER said this issue is being studied and, although it may seem like an easy one on the surface, it is not. For notaries public, it's more difficult to have electronic notarizations. She said consideration is being made to look in statute and take out any impediments to the legislature's consideration of the matter in the future when technology has advanced. 8:48:29 AM MR. CLARK noted that the proposed bill states that a notary public's signature must be in his/her own handwriting. He said that might be an impediment to electronic notarization. Some of the language regarding seals may also be an impediment, he added. 8:49:03 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG said he would be happy to work on the language with him. 8:49:22 AM MR. CLARK said he needs more time to look at the entire bill and "model" bills, as well. 8:49:25 AM VICE CHAIR GATTO said, "I think this bill moves more comfortably without complicating it with things that I did not initially see as part of this legislation." 8:49:38 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG said, "I believe that the title is broad enough to accomplish that." 8:51:29 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG requested that the committee give permission for Legislative Legal and Research Services to speak directly with Ms. Kreitzer and Mr. Clark. VICE CHAIR GATTO asked if there were any objections [to that request]. [No objections were stated.] 8:51:55 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG moved to adopt Conceptual Amendment 2, as amended. There being no objection, it was so ordered. 8:52:39 AM VICE CHAIR GATTO opened public testimony. 8:52:49 AM PATRICIA BRAY, testifying on behalf of herself, noted that she has worked between Mexico and the U.S. on coordination of many bi-national projects and has taken a global dialogue on agriculture trade to the United Nation's world conference on women in China. She revealed that she has "a situation of identity theft," as well as "a personal situation with a notary." Ms. Bray thanked the House Rules Committee and the governor for considering this issue. 8:54:09 AM MS. BRAY recalled that President George W. Bush has signed the Identity Theft Penalty Enhancement Act. She quoted a statement made by President Bush regarding identity theft. She indicated that the Act was a bi-partisan effort of Congress. Ms. Bray recommended that the House Rules Committee incorporate the rules and regulations under the national legislation into HB 97. 8:57:17 AM VICE CHAIR GATTO, in response to remarks by Ms. Bray, told her that the issue of identity theft and electronic signatures may be addressed in the future, but he would like to limit the discussion to the notary public bill in the interest of time. 8:57:36 AM MS. BRAY said she has evidence of a notary using her personal information on an official document without her permission. She said [HB 97] identifies the revocation of a notary public's right, which is important. She said, "A notary can take 25 years of someone's life and destroy it in two minutes." Ms. Bray talked about issues related to banking and national security. 8:58:34 AM VICE CHAIR GATTO offered his understanding that Ms. Bray had spoken with the "notary office." 8:59:01 AM MS. BRAY answered no. In response to a question from Vice Chair Gatto specifically asking if she had spoken with Mr. Clark, Ms. Bray answered yes. She mentioned oaths and affirmations and said, "There is a real need to tighten up or put in that a judge must have a current oath of office in effect to be operating in the judiciary, and Alaska does not have that situation existing." 9:00:03 AM VICE CHAIR GATTO closed public testimony. 9:00:13 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG moved to report the committee substitute (CS) for HB 97, Version 24-GH1008\G, Bannister, 1/28/05, as amended, out of committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes. There being no objection, CSHB 97(STA) was reported out of the House State Affairs Standing Committee.
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